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Ed Reed inflated stats?

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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 21st 2011, 8:28 pm

Hmmmm....i was just going over some stats from the 2010 regular season and found something interesting about Ed Reed, although he managed 8 INTs last season, he did it against pretty "bad" teams/qaurterbacks, lets take a look at how Reed comprised his 8 INTs...

He snagged 2 INTs from Colt Mcoy and the 29th ranked Pass Offense in the NFL..., he did manage to get 2 from Carson Palmer, but lets face it, the last 3 years Palmer has been a shadow of his old self,... he INTed Chad Henne 1 time, Henne threw 15 TD and 19 INT last yr...2 more INTs against the 25th ranked Pass Offense in Buffalo and Fitzpatrick and to top it off he managed to INT 2 passes from some guy name St.Pierre in Carolina and that awful 32nd ranked Offense....now is it just me or does it seem like Ed Reed only played well against 'poorer' teams? ...just throwing this out there to see what u guys think.
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Post  BaltRavensFan20 June 21st 2011, 8:34 pm

What does it really matter? Could he really help what teams he played against at the time he came back? To me a INT is a INT, if it helps the team I'll take it. Any kind of turnover, no matter what team its against, whether its an easy team or not, will help win a football game; and at the end of the day, isnt that all that matters? Is if you win a football game? Im not ryint o be a homer or stand behind Reed, Im just asking you, whats more important, getting a INT to help win a game, or worrying about inflated stats becasue he played well against poor teams? And also, isnt every top 5 safety going to play well against a poor passing team in general?
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Post  EPICxPENGUIN69 June 21st 2011, 8:35 pm

8 ints in 10 games is still impressive dude
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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 21st 2011, 8:40 pm

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:What does it really matter? Could he really help what teams he played against at the time he came back? To me a INT is a INT, if it helps the team I'll take it. Any kind of turnover, no matter what team its against, whether its an easy team or not, will help win a football game; and at the end of the day, isnt that all that matters? Is if you win a football game? Im not ryint o be a homer or stand behind Reed, Im just asking you, whats more important, getting a INT to help win a game, or worrying about inflated stats becasue he played well against poor teams? And also, isnt every top 5 safety going to play well against a poor passing team in general?

i totally agree that Turnovers no matter where they come at are definite 'keys' to winning, what im saying is where were his INTs against teams like Pittsburg,New Orleans,Atlanta etc etc, ...im not trying to knock Reed at all here, just was bored and analyzing diferent shit and break down per game scenarios etc etc...basically just pointing out that he got all his stats from poorer teams
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Post  BaltRavensFan20 June 21st 2011, 8:46 pm

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:
BaltRavensFan20 wrote:What does it really matter? Could he really help what teams he played against at the time he came back? To me a INT is a INT, if it helps the team I'll take it. Any kind of turnover, no matter what team its against, whether its an easy team or not, will help win a football game; and at the end of the day, isnt that all that matters? Is if you win a football game? Im not ryint o be a homer or stand behind Reed, Im just asking you, whats more important, getting a INT to help win a game, or worrying about inflated stats becasue he played well against poor teams? And also, isnt every top 5 safety going to play well against a poor passing team in general?

i totally agree that Turnovers no matter where they come at are definite 'keys' to winning, what im saying is where were his INTs against teams like Pittsburg,New Orleans,Atlanta etc etc, ...im not trying to knock Reed at all here, just was bored and analyzing diferent shit and break down per game scenarios etc etc...basically just pointing out that he got all his stats from poorer teams

I think it depends also on how the team throws and where they throw, they could have just thrown away from reed in those games you mentioned. I mean, when you get down to it, not every player shows up for every game either. Maybe I'll go back and look at stats also and watch some highlights....
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Post  KWicK78 June 21st 2011, 9:11 pm

I guess I'd rather he get INTs against bad teams than suck against them.

That being said, it is an interesting point. Something to consider would be the ASO effect-- good teams with good quarterbacks (Brees) know not to mess with him
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Post  PhantomReturns93 June 21st 2011, 9:32 pm

It doesn't really matter, it's still an impressive feat that only 2 safeties currently in the NFL could accomplish today, him being one of them (maybe Eric Berry in a year or two). That being said, I'm surprised I never saw this brought up last year when the Ravens fanbase kept pushing Reed for DPOY over Troy because of his INT/Game ratio, the QBs he snagged them against were pretty weak...(Troy's came against Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Carson Palmer, Colt Mccoy, and Ryan Fitzpatrick...still some weak QBs but a *slightly* more impressive list)
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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 21st 2011, 9:45 pm

TheDrunkGuyOnTheCouch wrote:It doesn't really matter, it's still an impressive feat that only 2 safeties currently in the NFL could accomplish today, him being one of them (maybe Eric Berry in a year or two). That being said, I'm surprised I never saw this brought up last year when the Ravens fanbase kept pushing Reed for DPOY over Troy because of his INT/Game ratio, the QBs he snagged them against were pretty weak...(Troy's came against Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Carson Palmer, Colt Mccoy, and Ryan Fitzpatrick...still some weak QBs but a *slightly* more impressive list)

exactly, my main thing i was looking for was from 2009 when Revis had that great year, but the Jet fanbase heard all sorts of crap about how some of the competition he faced was weak, like when he shut down T.O. and had some picks vs the Bills, or when he picked off Delhomme for 6 points and against the Bucs, all I heard was how weak those teams were but now i checked out a few things and come to find out Mr.Reed did all his damage vs weak teams...not trying to start any kind of war of words with anyone but it is what it is.
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Post  PhantomReturns93 June 21st 2011, 9:50 pm

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:
TheDrunkGuyOnTheCouch wrote:It doesn't really matter, it's still an impressive feat that only 2 safeties currently in the NFL could accomplish today, him being one of them (maybe Eric Berry in a year or two). That being said, I'm surprised I never saw this brought up last year when the Ravens fanbase kept pushing Reed for DPOY over Troy because of his INT/Game ratio, the QBs he snagged them against were pretty weak...(Troy's came against Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Carson Palmer, Colt Mccoy, and Ryan Fitzpatrick...still some weak QBs but a *slightly* more impressive list)

exactly, my main thing i was looking for was from 2009 when Revis had that great year, but the Jet fanbase heard all sorts of crap about how some of the competition he faced was weak, like when he shut down T.O. and had some picks vs the Bills, or when he picked off Delhomme for 6 points and against the Bucs, all I heard was how weak those teams were but now i checked out a few things and come to find out Mr.Reed did all his damage vs weak teams...not trying to start any kind of war of words with anyone but it is what it is.

I'd bet a lot of elite defensive players get most of their stats against bad offenses, I mean that's the point they're bad...they're still racking up those stats though whereas most players wouldn't get Ints or Sacks at all against the same competition. I don't think Revis our Polamalu or Reed pick off the Mannings and Bradys of the League as often as we think because of their reputations, same goes for Clay Matthews, James Harrison, Ware, etc., I don't feel like researching but they probably rack up their stats against weak Olines and rarely beat the elite LT's of the league...
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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 21st 2011, 9:58 pm

TheDrunkGuyOnTheCouch wrote:
MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:
TheDrunkGuyOnTheCouch wrote:It doesn't really matter, it's still an impressive feat that only 2 safeties currently in the NFL could accomplish today, him being one of them (maybe Eric Berry in a year or two). That being said, I'm surprised I never saw this brought up last year when the Ravens fanbase kept pushing Reed for DPOY over Troy because of his INT/Game ratio, the QBs he snagged them against were pretty weak...(Troy's came against Matt Ryan, Vince Young, Jason Campbell, Carson Palmer, Colt Mccoy, and Ryan Fitzpatrick...still some weak QBs but a *slightly* more impressive list)

exactly, my main thing i was looking for was from 2009 when Revis had that great year, but the Jet fanbase heard all sorts of crap about how some of the competition he faced was weak, like when he shut down T.O. and had some picks vs the Bills, or when he picked off Delhomme for 6 points and against the Bucs, all I heard was how weak those teams were but now i checked out a few things and come to find out Mr.Reed did all his damage vs weak teams...not trying to start any kind of war of words with anyone but it is what it is.

I'd bet a lot of elite defensive players get most of their stats against bad offenses, I mean that's the point they're bad...they're still racking up those stats though whereas most players wouldn't get Ints or Sacks at all against the same competition. I don't think Revis our Polamalu or Reed pick off the Mannings and Bradys of the League as often as we think because of their reputations, same goes for Clay Matthews, James Harrison, Ware, etc., I don't feel like researching but they probably rack up their stats against weak Olines and rarely beat the elite LT's of the league...

very good point, i understand that teams cant play "elite' teams each and every week, but the thing im talking about is making plays against 'everybody"...some players do and some dont, i will do more scavenging stats and see what i come up with
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Post  MyDirtyDangles June 21st 2011, 10:54 pm

thats how all good players inflate thier stats..you go play a carolina and have a field day. it happens.
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Post  MaddMatter June 21st 2011, 11:25 pm

8 in 10 games is great no matter what. I don't care if you play Ryan Leaf then JaMarcus Russell. 8 in 10? That's crazy. He may have done it against "bad" competition, but Palmer isn't stupid, he knows he shouldn't fuck with Reed. Yet Reed was able to make the play. Same with Henne he isn't stupid.

When I look at Defensive Stats I don't think it really matters who you play.

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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 22nd 2011, 12:16 am

MyDirtyDangles wrote:thats how all good players inflate thier stats..you go play a carolina and have a field day. it happens.

well, lets look at it from a different position, lets say that a HB gets 250yds rushing against the WORST Run D in the league, and the next week he gets 45 yds against a top 5 D, does that mean hes great or sucks? same for QBs, lets say a QB throws for 350 yds 4 TD 0 INT vs crappy team and 110 yds 0 TD and 3 INT against good, how do you judge that?
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Post  poshmidget June 22nd 2011, 12:33 am

it reed is tied for best safety in the league no question about it. every team gets a few bad passing teams every year. hes been this great for years. if you really think its just the ravens get an easy schedule your stupid.

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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 22nd 2011, 12:43 am

poshmidget wrote:it reed is tied for best safety in the league no question about it. every team gets a few bad passing teams every year. hes been this great for years. if you really think its just the ravens get an easy schedule your stupid.

i didnt say he wasnt a great Safety and i never said the Ravens got an "easy" schedule, i was basically pointing out that Ed Reed didnt do jack shit against a team over .500, but he came up HUGE against the bottom teams in the league, thats all.
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Post  KWicK78 June 22nd 2011, 1:10 am

poshmidget wrote:it reed is tied for best safety in the league no question about it. every team gets a few bad passing teams every year. hes been this great for years. if you really think its just the ravens get an easy schedule your stupid.

Easy, we are debating. No need to escalate this.

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Post  JermikesHere June 22nd 2011, 1:38 am

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:
poshmidget wrote:it reed is tied for best safety in the league no question about it. every team gets a few bad passing teams every year. hes been this great for years. if you really think its just the ravens get an easy schedule your stupid.

i didnt say he wasnt a great Safety and i never said the Ravens got an "easy" schedule, i was basically pointing out that Ed Reed didnt do jack shit against a team over .500, but he came up HUGE against the bottom teams in the league, thats all.

It's a fair point.. you know full damn well if a Jet player only did well vs bad teams people would say he sucks and got lucky and yada yada..

That being said, Ed Reed is a tremendous player.. I'd never try to take anything away from him.. and I don't think puppetz was either.. just pointing out a statistical anomaly.
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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 22nd 2011, 2:11 am

JermikesHere wrote:
MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:
poshmidget wrote:it reed is tied for best safety in the league no question about it. every team gets a few bad passing teams every year. hes been this great for years. if you really think its just the ravens get an easy schedule your stupid.

i didnt say he wasnt a great Safety and i never said the Ravens got an "easy" schedule, i was basically pointing out that Ed Reed didnt do jack shit against a team over .500, but he came up HUGE against the bottom teams in the league, thats all.

It's a fair point.. you know full damn well if a Jet player only did well vs bad teams people would say he sucks and got lucky and yada yada..

That being said, Ed Reed is a tremendous player.. I'd never try to take anything away from him.. and I don't think puppetz was either.. just pointing out a statistical anomaly.

agreed, when i think of Ed Reed i think of Top 2 thru 5 Safety in the game today, i am not trying to knock him at all, i was just crunching numbers and when i got to analyzing Ed i found it odd that he didnt really do much against the better teams...and also as Jermike pointed out, when a Jet player has a good game there is always speculation surrounding the circumstances, for instance when Revis shutdown T.O. for 3 reception 13 yds and had a INT, all we heard was "it was against Buffalo ahahahahah" etc etc you know what i mean, im just showing FACTS and stats showing Reed ONLY played good against trash teams, whereas Revis did his job week in and week out against ALL teams,...i hate to use Revis as an example because you guys will say im making comparison but im not, just giving examples...if Revis isnt that great because he shutdown Buffalo, Reed shouldnt be considered "great" for padding his stats against "lesser" competition
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Post  tubbs51 June 22nd 2011, 6:29 am

Ed is a Strong Safety right? (to be honest i can never remember) if so i would jump at the chance at getting Reed. Weather it's in his rookie year or final year i'd love to have such a leader and powerful force and im sure 99% of teams would do the same.
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Post  SteelersJMB June 22nd 2011, 10:05 am

tubbs51 wrote:Ed is a Strong Safety right? (to be honest i can never remember) if so i would jump at the chance at getting Reed. Weather it's in his rookie year or final year i'd love to have such a leader and powerful force and im sure 99% of teams would do the same.

Plays all over the field but his position has been FS.
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Post  KWicK78 June 22nd 2011, 2:16 pm

The issue isn't that he produces against shit teams. That's expecting. "Padding" the stats or whatever isn't the question or issue.

The interesting point is his lack of performance against good teams. I think it comes down to a combination of good QBs that can make reads and throw well, as well as QBs knowing Ed Reed and what he can do.
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Post  TRU11 June 22nd 2011, 3:13 pm

KWicK78 wrote:The issue isn't that he produces against shit teams. That's expecting. "Padding" the stats or whatever isn't the question or issue.

The interesting point is his lack of performance against good teams. I think it comes down to a combination of good QBs that can make reads and throw well, as well as QBs knowing Ed Reed and what he can do.

he doesent make alot of plays against them cause they dont throw it near him.
thats why some qbs are considerd great and others suck or just have potential.

same goes for every elite player.

you dont see elite qbs throw near revis aso or pola as well.

Ed usually makes his picks by reading a qb or baiting them in thinking a spot is open.

i think its alot harder to pull this off against guys like manning , brady or brees then those guys you mentioned.

But even so its still hard to get the int no matter who you playing IMO.
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Post  BaltRavensFan20 June 22nd 2011, 5:26 pm

TRU11 wrote:
KWicK78 wrote:The issue isn't that he produces against shit teams. That's expecting. "Padding" the stats or whatever isn't the question or issue.

The interesting point is his lack of performance against good teams. I think it comes down to a combination of good QBs that can make reads and throw well, as well as QBs knowing Ed Reed and what he can do.

he doesent make alot of plays against them cause they dont throw it near him.
thats why some qbs are considerd great and others suck or just have potential.

same goes for every elite player.

you dont see elite qbs throw near revis aso or pola as well.

Ed usually makes his picks by reading a qb or baiting them in thinking a spot is open.

i think its alot harder to pull this off against guys like manning , brady or brees then those guys you mentioned.

But even so its still hard to get the int no matter who you playing IMO.

Great Post right here ^
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Post  BaltRavensFan20 June 24th 2011, 7:21 pm

Well I just watched the highlights from the NO game, and for the most part it looked like they tried to throw away from reed, for all but 2 throws, and they were deep. I know its just highlights, but it could bring some insight as to how the saints threw.

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Post  MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ June 25th 2011, 3:55 am

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:Well I just watched the highlights from the NO game, and for the most part it looked like they tried to throw away from reed, for all but 2 throws, and they were deep. I know its just highlights, but it could bring some insight as to how the saints threw.


its not really a question of "who they threw to"...Ed Reed is a SAFETY , hes not a CB that is gaurding his WR on every play, ED REED's job is to ROAM THE SECONDARY and make plays without being assigned to any specific player, therefore he should be able to adjust and make plays on the football when its thrown..why didnt ED REED make these plays when faced with a better QB? i mean anyone can INT St.Pieere from Carolina twice, or rookie Colt Mcoy from the Browns twice...what im saying is that without an assigned player, Reed should be all over the field, he got 8 INT last season and everyone hootin and hollerin that hes the best, but he didnt do jack shit against the best.
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