Is He A Winner?

Very good article I strolled upon.

http://nflfilms.nfl.com/2012/05/30/cosell-talks-hes-a-winner/?module=HP11_cp

I've always had the same opinion. The underlying point is that football is a team sport, wins and Super Bowls aren't attributable to any single player or position, even if it's the most important one on the field.

I find it funny that Brady "won" his Superbowls in his first 5 years and hasnt won anything signifigant since Spygate...makes you wonder how well ANY QB would do if his coaching staff already knew the opposing teams plays before they were called

Flacco hasnt done anything except lead the league in dumpoff passes to boost his completion percentage...sorry Ravens fans, Flacco is nothing special, he has a career Playoff QB Rating of 49

Peyton Manning is by far the BEST QB to play this game since Dan Marino....BAR NONE

Tim Tebow and the words "Great, Brilliant, Winner and Starting QB should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence.

thats my take on that little story

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:I find it funny that Brady "won" his Superbowls in his first 5 years and hasnt won anything signifigant since Spygate...makes you wonder how well ANY QB would do if his coaching staff already knew the opposing teams plays before they were called

He still QBd an 18-1 team and got to Two SuperBowls. Spygate didn't do anything lol.

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:I find it funny that Brady "won" his Superbowls in his first 5 years and hasnt won anything signifigant since Spygate...makes you wonder how well ANY QB would do if his coaching staff already knew the opposing teams plays before they were called

Flacco hasnt done anything except lead the league in dumpoff passes to boost his completion percentage...sorry Ravens fans, Flacco is nothing special, he has a career Playoff QB Rating of 49

Peyton Manning is by far the BEST QB to play this game since Dan Marino....BAR NONE

Tim Tebow and the words "Great, Brilliant, Winner and Starting QB should NEVER be mentioned in the same sentence.

thats my take on that little story

I guess you didnt watch all of last season then. Cause flacco did more than dump off passes. I just find it funny that everyone jumps on him for that. If your oline is crap and you dont have time in the pocket to throw down field, what do you expect him to do? Throw it away or gain a few yrds with your RB? Or how about the fact that your slow WRs cant get open to save their lives, and the only option you have is to dump it off to your RB. Im just saying, before you state your remarks about how flacco dumps it off all the time, atleast analyize the situation of the ravens in the past 3 yrs, then make your comments. Flacco didnt have explosive WRs his first 3 yrs. He had slow Dmase, he has slow Boldin, Clayton couldnt catch a ball to save his life, Evans was injured for the whole season, Demetrius Williams was in IR every year. Does that sound like a WR core that could help a young QB out? Do you think a QB can have success with WRs that cant get open? Granted, yes our WRs have gotten open here and there and Flacco has hesitated and missed them, but most of the time its been our WRs that cant get open. Dickson's hands have been here and there. Pitta has been reliable. Thank goodness for Torrey Smith, because without him stretching the field and being reliable our Wr core would be the exact same as it has been for the past 3 yrs. Rice has always been our most reliable reciever, bar none, next would be Boldin (when he gets open), then Torrey Smith, then Pitta.

Personally I couldnt give a crap if Flacco dumps it off, if thats how we win, than so be it. The leagues about winning, not stats, not about how many times a QB dumps it off. Its about WINNING. Flacco helps us win, just like every other player on our team. Will Flacco be a Tom Brady or Manning, maybe, I feel he has potential to be, but the bottom line and most important thing is that he helps the team win in a TEAM sport. Hes had come from behind wins against great defemses in the final minutes of a game, something that he has gotten going this past year. If that doesnt show growth than what does? Does he has things to work on? Yes, like making quicker reads, but hes still young and still has room for improvement. If you look at Bradys stats his first four years compared to flaccos they are almost identical. If you want me to find them I can.

I know I just went off on a tangent, but Im sick of the dump off ragging all the time. If you want to listen to anaylists and pay attention to stats, than so be it. But think about stuff before you post it, and know the reasons behind the dump offs before stating this stuff. You know as well as I do that I know more about what the ravens have been dealing with more than you do, just like you know more about the jets than I do. So all Im saying is find out about what has been happing and do research instead of just going by stats and what anaylists say.

Oh and about that career playoff rating... Sure, I would go by that rating now after having a QB that almost won us a trip to the SB in the playoffs last year after having a come from behind drive and his WR dropping the ball and Kicker missing a kick....

I would have quoted it but its too long.....bottomline is this, if you analyze Flaccos passes you will see a mediocre QB when he has to pass the ball more than 10 yards downfield and you will see a good QB if you combine his dumpoffs which in turn get tallied just like the rest of his passes...The thing about Flacco that really irritates me is that he is a 'stat hound" , he would rather get a "completion" regardless of whether his team wins or looses, case in point would be the game against the Falcons when the Ravens needed a last minute drive to win and Flacco wouldnt even attempt a deep pass with under a minute to play, as a matter of fact he loves to dump the ball to Ray Rice sooo much that with 4 seconds remaining in the game he decided to throw the ball to Rice for a 3 yard gain instead of attempting a 60 yard Hail Mary...that should tell you somnething ...Ravens lost by 1 point i believe :arrow:

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:I would have quoted it but its too long.....bottomline is this, if you analyze Flaccos passes you will see a mediocre QB when he has to pass the ball more than 10 yards downfield and you will see a good QB if you combine his dumpoffs which in turn get tallied just like the rest of his passes...The thing about Flacco that really irritates me is that he is a 'stat hound" , he would rather get a "completion" regardless of whether his team wins or looses, case in point would be the game against the Falcons when the Ravens needed a last minute drive to win and Flacco wouldnt even attempt a deep pass with under a minute to play, as a matter of fact he loves to dump the ball to Ray Rice sooo much that with 4 seconds remaining in the game he decided to throw the ball to Rice for a 3 yard gain instead of attempting a 60 yard Hail Mary...that should tell you somnething ...Ravens lost by 1 point i believe :arrow:

again, your going back to stats. Ok, and what about those come from behind games against pittsburg and a few other teams? He didnt look like a "stat hound" in those games did he? Did he dump off the ball to rice in the final drives of those games? No, he threw a bomb to torrey smith for a TD, he threw a strike to evans that would have been a TD if evans would have held on. That falcons game was in 2010 when we had crap WRs, I'll go back to my previous point. Did you ever think that maybe he threw that dump off because he didnt have faith in his mediocure WRs? A QB gains confidence when his WRs catch the ball. Look how much he threw deep last season, maybe it has to do with the fact he finally has a deep threat in Torrey Smith that can catch; and he was able to get it to a slower boldin who could get open because of Torrey Smith. Maybe it has to do with the fact he was in his 4th year and getting better. Maybe it has to do with the fact that hes getting comfortable in his offense. It seems like everyone anymore just looks at stats, they dont look at how a QB plays, or how he wins. Case in point you even brought up stats, when you said you dont like that flaccos a stat hound.

I'll quote my last part of the post:

Personally I couldnt give a crap if Flacco dumps it off, if thats how we win, than so be it. The leagues about winning, not stats, not about how many times a QB dumps it off. Its about WINNING.

To me stats dont mean SQUAT. I want a Qb that can win, whether its a dirty not pretty win, or a phenomenal display to win, I dont care. I want a QB that will do anything to win, if it means dumping it off to rice 20 times a game when it throws Ds off balance than so be it, if it means throwing deep on every play than so be it. I dont care, I dont care about stats, just win. And Flacco has done that (or I should say helped and shared in being a part of that) in being the most winningest QB in his first 4 yrs.

thats all fine and dandy but that QB shouldnt be going around saying he is the "BEST" QB in the league, I think to be the best QB in the league you would need to make your deep passes count, not just throw a few per season and dumpoff the rest and say 'hey, look at my stats" which is exactly what Flacco does, that was Flaccos main reasoning for a new contract, he basically said he outplayed his old one and feels hes earned a new one....well Ozzie sees it the way I see it, it is what it is.

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:thats all fine and dandy but that QB shouldnt be going around saying he is the "BEST" QB in the league, I think to be the best QB in the league you would need to make your deep passes count, not just throw a few per season and dumpoff the rest and say 'hey, look at my stats" which is exactly what Flacco does, that was Flaccos main reasoning for a new contract, he basically said he outplayed his old one and feels hes earned a new one....well Ozzie sees it the way I see it, it is what it is.

Ok, and what player doesnt say they outplayed their old contract? What player doesnt outplay his rookie contract? Almost every player does unless hes a bust or is drafted in the later rounds.

And again, with the "best" comment. You can say he literally thinks hes the best, I'll say he has confidence, and we will leave it at that....

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:thats all fine and dandy but that QB shouldnt be going around saying he is the "BEST" QB in the league, I think to be the best QB in the league you would need to make your deep passes count, not just throw a few per season and dumpoff the rest and say 'hey, look at my stats" which is exactly what Flacco does, that was Flaccos main reasoning for a new contract, he basically said he outplayed his old one and feels hes earned a new one....well Ozzie sees it the way I see it, it is what it is.

Ok, and what player doesnt say they outplayed their old contract? What player doesnt outplay his rookie contract? Almost every player does unless hes a bust or is drafted in the later rounds.

And again, with the "best" comment. You can say he literally thinks hes the best, I'll say he has confidence, and we will leave it at that....

funny how its "confidence" when Flacco says it and "arrogance" if Rex Ryan says his team is good enough to win the SuperBowl....now, back to Flacco and his contract, sure every rookie usually feels they outplayed thier original contract but Flacco padded his stats due to dumpoffs to inflate his stats and went in using his stats as a key part of getting a new deal, saying stuff like "statistically i am right up there with the Top QBs in the league" and shit like that... personally I dont care much for stats myself but when you have a QB that does, it makes a big difference to the style of play you get from him, and Flacco cares TREMENDOUSLY about his stats.

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:thats all fine and dandy but that QB shouldnt be going around saying he is the "BEST" QB in the league, I think to be the best QB in the league you would need to make your deep passes count, not just throw a few per season and dumpoff the rest and say 'hey, look at my stats" which is exactly what Flacco does, that was Flaccos main reasoning for a new contract, he basically said he outplayed his old one and feels hes earned a new one....well Ozzie sees it the way I see it, it is what it is.

Ok, and what player doesnt say they outplayed their old contract? What player doesnt outplay his rookie contract? Almost every player does unless hes a bust or is drafted in the later rounds.

And again, with the "best" comment. You can say he literally thinks hes the best, I'll say he has confidence, and we will leave it at that....

funny how its "confidence" when Flacco says it and "arrogance" if Rex Ryan says his team is good enough to win the SuperBowl....now, back to Flacco and his contract, sure every rookie usually feels they outplayed thier original contract but Flacco padded his stats due to dumpoffs to inflate his stats and went in using his stats as a key part of getting a new deal, saying stuff like "statistically i am right up there with the Top QBs in the league" and shit like that... personally I dont care much for stats myself but when you have a QB that does, it makes a big difference to the style of play you get from him, and Flacco cares TREMENDOUSLY about his stats.

And how do you exactly know that he did it to pad his stats? Did you ask him personally? Sure, he can make it seems like he does, but do you know for sure? Do you have something saying that he said "I dump it off to ray to pad my stats"?

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:thats all fine and dandy but that QB shouldnt be going around saying he is the "BEST" QB in the league, I think to be the best QB in the league you would need to make your deep passes count, not just throw a few per season and dumpoff the rest and say 'hey, look at my stats" which is exactly what Flacco does, that was Flaccos main reasoning for a new contract, he basically said he outplayed his old one and feels hes earned a new one....well Ozzie sees it the way I see it, it is what it is.

Ok, and what player doesnt say they outplayed their old contract? What player doesnt outplay his rookie contract? Almost every player does unless hes a bust or is drafted in the later rounds.

And again, with the "best" comment. You can say he literally thinks hes the best, I'll say he has confidence, and we will leave it at that....

funny how its "confidence" when Flacco says it and "arrogance" if Rex Ryan says his team is good enough to win the SuperBowl....now, back to Flacco and his contract, sure every rookie usually feels they outplayed thier original contract but Flacco padded his stats due to dumpoffs to inflate his stats and went in using his stats as a key part of getting a new deal, saying stuff like "statistically i am right up there with the Top QBs in the league" and shit like that... personally I dont care much for stats myself but when you have a QB that does, it makes a big difference to the style of play you get from him, and Flacco cares TREMENDOUSLY about his stats.

Really? Because from the style of play I saw from him in those comeback wins, it didint look like a player who wants to pad his stats, but a qb that wanted to win.

Also, if he cared so much about stats, dont you think he would throw it less and make more accurate throws so he had better completions? Sure he dumps it off, but he also makes bone headed throws for ints and incompletitions that scream to me he dosnt care about stats.

Id also like to ask how many ravens games (full games) have you really watched? I've watched 95% (some I have missed due to work) or flaccos games, and the guy I see on the field playing does not look like a guy that wants to pad his stats.

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:

funny how its "confidence" when Flacco says it and "arrogance" if Rex Ryan says his team is good enough to win the SuperBowl....now, back to Flacco and his contract, sure every rookie usually feels they outplayed thier original contract but Flacco padded his stats due to dumpoffs to inflate his stats and went in using his stats as a key part of getting a new deal, saying stuff like "statistically i am right up there with the Top QBs in the league" and shit like that... personally I dont care much for stats myself but when you have a QB that does, it makes a big difference to the style of play you get from him, and Flacco cares TREMENDOUSLY about his stats.

And how do you exactly know that he did it to pad his stats? Did you ask him personally? Sure, he can make it seems like he does, but do you know for sure? Do you have something saying that he said "I dump it off to ray to pad my stats"?[/quote]

He said it to the world in that loss to the Falcons, his team needed him to make a throw and he chose a dumpoff for yds with 4 seconds remaining in a game his team was only losing by 1 point, that in itself speaks volumes.

MASTRxOFxPUPPETZ wrote:

BaltRavensFan20 wrote:

funny how its "confidence" when Flacco says it and "arrogance" if Rex Ryan says his team is good enough to win the SuperBowl....now, back to Flacco and his contract, sure every rookie usually feels they outplayed thier original contract but Flacco padded his stats due to dumpoffs to inflate his stats and went in using his stats as a key part of getting a new deal, saying stuff like "statistically i am right up there with the Top QBs in the league" and shit like that... personally I dont care much for stats myself but when you have a QB that does, it makes a big difference to the style of play you get from him, and Flacco cares TREMENDOUSLY about his stats.

And how do you exactly know that he did it to pad his stats? Did you ask him personally? Sure, he can make it seems like he does, but do you know for sure? Do you have something saying that he said "I dump it off to ray to pad my stats"?

He said it to the world in that loss to the Falcons, his team needed him to make a throw and he chose a dumpoff for yds with 4 seconds remaining in a game his team was only losing by 1 point, that in itself speaks volumes.[/quote]

Ok? and one game just automatically declares him a stat padder, along with some dumpoffs to rice? No mention of the other throws he has made, just the negative bad dumpoffs?

Yeah, ok......

BaltRavensFan20 wrote: just the negative bad dumpoffs?

Yeah, ok......

no, he actually has led the league in dumpoff passes to his HB for 3 seasons now, maybe thats where I get that from

I'll say one more thing then Im done (all arguments get old after awhile). Lets bring up this scenario for the falcons game. Say none of our Wrs were open on the final drive (I cant exactly remeber because it was 2 seasons ago), what are flaccos other options? RB, sack, or throw it away (if the WRs are covered what good would a Hail Mary do?). You def dont want to take a sack. You could thow it away, but how much time was left? Or you could throw it to your RB to see if he could make a play. Personally, I would get it to Rice, Rice IS our Offense, and IS our Playmaker (hes has been since he started playing). If your recievers are covered, why wouldnt you get it to your biggest playmaker? What if Rice would have gotten a TD, by breaking away. Thats the thing with football, you take whats given to you.

Puppetz, Im not trying to argue with you. Im just trying to get you to see my point. My point is to anaylize every possibility, look over what happened, try to think of different scenarios instead of just going by stats and anaylists. To get the full picture you just cant go by one thing, you have to look at everything. You have to ask yourself WHY has flacco lead the league in dumpoffs, WHY is it always rice, not just look at things and take them for granted so to speak. Maybe it was the fact our WRs sucked, or our oline couldnt hold, or flacco is still inexperienced, etc. Im trying to get you to see my point just like you are yours. I see your point, but Im the type of guy who leaves things open, the type of guy who poses what if questions, becasue not everything is always like it seems, theres always a reasoning behind things.... thats all...

thats fine and i could see him trying to get the ball to his playmaker, but his playmaker was standing 1 yard past the line of scrimmage and he needed a 60 yard TD and only a few seconds left in the game, it was the FINAL play of the game, he HAS to take that chance of just letting it rip and see what happens...instead he chose to end the game with a completion for 3 yards